Whither Vietnamese Catholic Communities in America? Catholic Youth and the Clash of Faith and Culture (Part 3)

Whither Vietnamese Catholic Communities in America? Catholic Youth and the Clash of Faith and Culture (Introduction, Part 1, Part 2, Part 3, Part 4, Part 5)

Part 3

Interviewee: Johnathanh Mai (Portland, OR)

12 June 2020

Anna Nguyen

These interviews were conducted via Zoom and are published with only light editing for clarity. They are intended to supplement my initial research and provide a better understanding of different perspectives in regards to the sustainability of Vietnamese-American Catholicism. 

Mr. Johnathanh Mai is a parishioner and educator of catechesis at the Our Lady of Lavang parish in Portland, Oregon. He started his family within this community and was inspired to give back to his parish by teaching along with many other volunteers.

Anna Nguyen: Can you tell me about your involvement at Our Lady of Lavang Parish? How did this experience begin?

Johnathanh Mai: My involvement with Our Lady of Lavang Parish began when I started dating my wife. I got involved because I wanted to participate in a community after college, and I found that through the youth choir. My wife was also in the choir as well, so we got married, had two daughters, and my first daughter started Sunday school in kindergarten. After two weeks of observing my daughter’s kindergarten classroom, I was overwhelmed by the number of students in the class. There were not enough adults to help in the classroom, so I started to volunteer and help out any way that I can. Because our parish school is volunteer-based, there’s limited resources.  In addition, I felt that some teaching techniques were traditional so I wanted to see if I can assist and introduce new techniques and options. 

At home, I heard from somewhere that either you can complain and be on the sidelines, or you can actively help out, step in, and be a volunteer to improve the situation. So that’s what I did. Each year, our parish catechists have an opportunity to attend an LA Recongress in Anaheim Convention Center. At the LA Recongress, I began to hear the message of what Catholicism is,  and how we can live our life to the fullest as a Catholic. The Holy Spirit also opened my mind to understand what God wanted for my life. It’s like I got slapped on the back and was told “Wake up, stupid!” Before this awakening, I was just practicing and participating as a passive Catholic. But now with more understanding, my faith has ignited and I see what it really means, how it makes sense, and what I need to do with my life to grow in the faith. And that’s when my journey began.

Coming back from the LA Recongress, I was very energized and passionate about what I learned, so I shared that knowledge with other volunteers. A priest saw a sense of fire in me, so he said: “Okay, you got to continue with this path.” He encouraged me to take more challenges, helping out with higher class levels, from fifth grade, confirmation class which was either 10th or 11th grade, and then 12th grade. As I participated each year, I took on more challenges where it was needed, such as being a “Called to Protect” trainer and an Eucharistic Extraordinary Minister. I deeply believe that God has blessed me with many gifts and talents so I need to use it wisely to help others and share it with the community.

AN: Since you’ve been in this parish community for so long, how would you describe the congregation? Would you say that it has a strong youth presence?

JM: Like other parishes, there are specific groups within a parish, typically specific age ranges, interests, and talents. Each group also has a unique tradition. There’s also a distinctiveness between older people that grew up in Vietnam with deep Vietnamese culture and tradition, and younger generations that grew up in America with Western culture. Older generations are comfortable with their culture and traditions, while younger generations are living within the American culture. They have limited exposure to Vietnamese culture and are trying to accommodate both cultures. There’s a mixture there in the classroom, where you have variation depending on how much exposure you have within your family. Their faith is brought up with that and so they’re trying to mix that together.

I’ve been in these situations. I grew up over in Vietnam where I was very devout, pious, rigid, and strict. And then when I came over here, I flipped to the opposite end because I lived in a foster family that was Lutheran. We still practiced our Catholic faith, and went to American church from my youth up to college. After college, I started participating in Our Lady of Lavang parish and that’s where I started to merge the two experiences together as well as understand the differences between them. What I have experienced, I wanted to find ways to merge those gaps together, to understand both from the adult side and from the young life.

AN: Yeah, that’s true.

JM: I don’t know about others but I feel like I see that the majority of people coming from Vietnam are still holding on to their faith firmly. They’re very faithful, and believe in the Bible teaching, commandments and Beatitudes, as well as their devotions to Mary and the saints. They are very devout, and the interpretation is whatever the priest says and whatever is taught to them. They hold it very firmly, but in regards to actions about something it’s a little bit different since they don’t express as much in terms of going out and really proclaiming that faith. It’s more kind of like held back within the community versus over here in the West, where [believers] are more like “cafeteria Catholics,” since what they know, have, and feel is what is compelling them. They are really passionate to express [their beliefs] and also go out to proclaim and defend the faith

In America, the opportunity to be a cafeteria Catholic is easy because the secular world is providing so much alternative thinking and behavior. When youths are not properly catechized, they have difficulty understanding what is the true Catholic teaching and how you are to live it. What are the benefits? What are the values? And why is it that it’s been consistent throughout history versus now?  In secular America, there are many ideas and thinking such as the Church needs to move with modern society, and needs to modify faith and morality to fit the modern lifestyle. However, the Church’s purpose is to proclaim, teach, and defend Jesus’ message and teaching. The Church is not here to change or re-invent Jesus’ teaching. Whatever Jesus has told us to do, we need to continue on with that. We can’t change it because we know that God’s morality is always constant no matter what it is. By adjusting to the society, the Church will lose its identity. That’s why you need to get back to the basics and really understand that fundamental teachings and what Jesus’ message is and follow them. 

AN: That’s a great segue to my next question. I think you might have already answered it a little bit in your previous response, but what are some challenges you have faced as a Vietnamese Catholic in America? 

JM: That’s a good question. For me, the challenges are maintaining the faith because in America right now, life is so hectic and busy in the day. You don’t have enough time to really slow down and take time to reflect, to pray each day, and to practice your Catholicism. Being a Catholic is not just about going to Mass on Sunday, it’s also living your faith within weekdays at home with your family. So that’s the number one challenge of having enough time. We’re so overwhelmingly busy with work. And then having time for your family, taking care of priorities. You have your children that you have to take care of and you have entertainment and the Internet and your laptop and your cell phone and all those things bringing information into your day. 

The number two challenge in America is that there are so many mixed messages out there. The majority of society right now is very secular, and the messages are against the Catholics. They’re always tainted and obviously the opposite. To me, Catholicism is one of the most persecuted religions in the news, media, social media, government, etc. It’s the only religion that when it’s made fun of or put down, people would celebrate, laugh, or praise, no voice condemning. And so that’s challenging.

The third thing is that because of so many material things in the world and society right now, we lose the perspective on the spiritual life and how to practice those attitudes of kindness, good word, and avoidance of temptation and falling into sins. These things help make a virtuous person: practice the 10 commandments. Don’t steal, don’t act with hatred toward another person, keep the commandment of God, value families and parents. That needs to be done in this society right now. Secular society is about individualism, and it’s breaking down what is meant to be good and to say, “Hey, I will interpret the way I want to, and what I feel is right, and no one else can tell me what to do.”

AN: Now, would you say that Catholic youths have the same challenges? Or are the challenges you described applicable to all generations of Catholics?

JM:  I would think that all Catholic youth have the same challenges and are affected by the specific culture they’re exposed to or live in. In the past, the youth from Vietnam don’t have much exposure out there other than within their community and in their family. So they’ll follow more of what they know. But I think the same youth come to America, grow up where there’s lots of alternative messaging out there, and also get that same challenge. The youth is so busy now that in the morning when they wake up, what’s the first thing they do? Do they make the sign of the cross, or do they grab their phone or snooze their alarm? And when they get up, what’s the first thing they check? Text messages have been coming in at night and they need to catch up to the latest and greatest news, and then hustle and bustle after that and rush to school.   Before Mass, do they sit quietly in silence and try to contemplate and get ready for Mass, or are they instead talking to the friends sitting next to them?  Others would check their phone and start texting, sometimes during Mass. Attention in Mass is very challenging because one thought is telling them that the Mass is boring and thoughts wander to other things such as: “What am I going to do after Mass? I can’t wait until I get out of here.” Those are the challenges youth are bombarded with because they’re so inundated with busy things all the time. Right now, we forget to slow down and just focus on one thing at a time.

AN: Yeah, definitely. I tend to agree, and that resonated with me because I found that now I’m in college, I’ve come to a crossroads [in terms of my faith] where either I have to choose to keep going on this path that I’ve started since my childhood, or I can divert from that. Because in middle school and high school, I was at home, I had my parents to help guide me, but in college it’s kind of like I’m on my own for the most part. And so I have to start making these decisions for myself. And it’s not just making these decisions, but evaluating what the reasoning behind it is. I think that a lot of Vietnamese Catholics my age are experiencing the same concerns. 

JM: I’m really glad you brought it up because that was part of my personal mission to help Catholic youths see a bigger picture and mission for their life. In college, the majority of my friends were either atheist or practicing different religions. An example was fasting during Lent.  Friday night was always a challenge because it’s the weekend, friends would come over wanting to party and beer and were tempting me to break fasting before midnight. When I had the conversion experience during Recongress, I realized that I wanted to share these experiences with youths and teach them early on in life so they would be in a better position earlier in life to grow their faith at an early age rather than later. And to help the youth to understand more on why older generations are more devoted to their faith.

What I ended up doing was after confirmation, I said, “Hey, that’s my graduation, I’m done. That’s it, I don’t need to study my religion anymore. I’m a fully grown Christian so I can just do whatever I want and nobody can tell me what to do.” Contrary to that thought, this is just the beginning of being an adult Christian. It means us really going out there and discovering the truth and really exploring and finding ways to not give up on that. All while these temptations come and try to divert us from trying to maintain [our beliefs]. You can maintain that and grow in your faith because it’s 2000 years of the Catholic faith. I’m most likely not going to learn everything in my lifetime. Just because I graduated or got confirmed, it doesn’t mean that I know everything about our faith. Most of us are barely scratching the surface of our faith; our faith is a living faith that we will continue to learn until the day we die. That’s what I want to do to help the students to recognize that. My goal for 12th grade students is to enable them to grow independently in their faith. Their parents are not going to be there to put their guard up and nag and make sure that they keep on doing the right thing and keep practicing their faith. Four years of college does not mean that you can take four years of vacation from your faith.

AN: So since these challenges of materialism and individualism exist — especially within the youth in our Catholic parishes — what can we do to resolve or at least mitigate the effects of these challenges? Would you say that education, like what you’ve been doing for all these years, is one of those solutions?

JM: Yes, that is one solution. It helps. Unfortunately, the time spent with the youth in class is very limited. They come to Sunday school about two hours a week, and sometimes on special occasions we get them for a weekend like Confirmation retreat. Confirmation retreat is one of youth programs where we can really open up their eyes and experience what is really important in their life, help them encounter Christ’s love for them, and allow them to suppress the noise and distraction of the busy life. That’s part of the reason why after returning from Confirmation retreat, many youths have been transformed, the filter has lifted from their eyes and they recognize what is important and central to their faith life. But in order to maintain that and continue, we need constant support from their parents and family. Family is the foundation for developing and nurturing growth in their faith. Parents have the ability to encourage, remind, and teach them every day. If parents don’t do that constantly, youths will drift away from their faith sooner or later. That’s what I see with many of my students, who once were so passionate, but then gradually fade away. The third thing is definitely within the parish. More involvement, more activity, more programs for youth, so that way it draws them in and to participate and to reinforce their faith.

AN: Yeah, for sure. I didn’t want to divulge too much of my findings before the interview, but if I can share some insight about what I found so far, I definitely agree with everything you’re saying. And the two conclusions that I came to in developing some of my preliminary analysis from this research is that one, when Vietnamese refugees immigrated to America, some immigrated for economic reasons but for the most part, many fled religious persecution. So when these immigrants came over here like my parents, and you as well, they came with practically nothing. And they faced lots of economic challenges, cultural challenges, not a lot of knowledge of the language. The one thing keeping them anchored is their Catholic faith, so that’s why their devotion was so strong. And as the years went on, they sacrificed a lot and developed a better life for themselves and their children. So that’s one reason why with Vietnamese Catholicism, there’s so much devotion to it from older generations. Whereas now, the youth don’t really see the privileges that they have, they kind of take it for granted, to some degree at least.

JM: I agree with you on that. That’s insightful because what I teach my children constantly is to be grateful for what you have and how much God has blessed us with. Like you say, I came over here empty handed, didn’t have anything, didn’t have family, didn’t have parents, didn’t have money whatsoever and grew up in an environment where I was helped by other people. There always seems to be someone behind me that is helping me through and I didn’t know who it was until later in life. I recognized that I have families and other people that are praying for me constantly. I have God that’s always there to help me through especially the hardships and challenges, like crying at night because I don’t have parents here to comfort me. Can’t speak the language, can’t click with other students, other students calling me names. Somehow, I was able to draw strength from within to overcome those challenges. 

I want to teach my children that if you have faith in God who is always there you will overcome difficulty and will succeed in life. I want to enable students to see the spectrum, a new perspective as they grow up and go to college. Your faith is very important, and that no matter what, even if the culture may have changed, your faith is still the same. That’s why when you lose a culture, you lose that connection to your community, to your family and your culture and you lose your faith, which is not what they intended.

AN: Where do you see this momentum leading in the near future? How do you see the trajectory of Catholicism within the next 5 to 10 years?

JM: So we have the older generations who still maintain their faith. However, there is definitely some decline in regard to the youth. I think they’re going to be dispersed a bit more, and I’m concerned because now with weak faith, once they leave the faith community they won’t come back. We need to somehow retain that [passion]. But I think in the end, as long as you keep your faith and know what is meaningful, what is really important, you always go back to the root. I’m hopeful that some of these students will hear the message that was given to them. It may be inside of them dormant and will not [ignite] until later in life. This could be after college, or when they start a family and have children. Finally they realize that oh, I need to do the same thing now. So because of [the desire] to want those good things for their children, it ignites them and says: “What I’ve been hearing for so many years before, I didn’t think was true. I didn’t care about it. It seemed to make sense now and I want to get back.” So the immediate effect, we don’t know. But we’re hopeful that through all those seeds that we have been planted, that some will take root early, some will take root later in life, but hopefully all of them are right. I think that when you practice and live your faith, and you have a good supportive family, and a strong faith community that you actively participate in, your faith will grow and you won’t lose your faith.